Matt Poppert Featured on the Dental Nachos Podcast

selling your dental practice is one of

the biggest decisions a dentist will

make in their career I am so thrilled to

have with me a transitions expert from

DDs match a partner and sponsor of

dental kns if you are up hold on let's

go back a sec Victoria how can I shut

people off now I'm going to start that

over

Josh uh you ask a man about our doorbell

thing so we did a thing guys on Zoom I

don't know if you guys know this people

can enter now and so you if you're

talking it's a little doorbell but can

we turn this off um Victoria I'm G to

start Mets over again I think you would

just have to like do it like when you're

not on a

meeting gotcha no one else I don't think

anyone else should be entering so it

should be nobody else is coming okay

perfect all right good five 4 3 2

selling your dental practice is one of

the biggest decisions a dentist will

make in their career I am so honored to

have an amazing key resource and sponsor

of dental nachos a transitions

specialist from DDs match to share with

us today how to make good decisions in

buying and selling your dental practice

two of the biggest decisions you will

make as a dentist if you would like to

learn more just text by to

25543 6454 or text cell to

25543 6454 and we'll be happy to connect

you with our transitions expert from DDs

match so I'd like to Welcome Matt poer

to our show Matt tell us a little bit

about what you do each day in this

Dental world to help dentist live their

best

life hey Paul thanks for having me on um

appreciate uh the opportunity to speak

to you and your followers um but yeah A

Day in the Life with me is is spent uh

primarily on on three fronts um I'm

spending a lot of time networking with

people and and getting in front of

doctors that are in this very important

time of considering transitioning their

their dental practice um setting up and

and meeting with those doctors to have

exploratory conversations to fully

understand what their goals are um and

then putting plans together to help them

accomplish those goals um I also spend a

good part of my time uh working with um

uh attorneys and CPAs as we're going

through this process of of transitioning

practices with clients uh both on the

buyer side and the seller side on the on

the sell side trying to help them

determine a value for their practice or

for their real estate uh and then on the

buy side um helping buyers fully

understand the financials and the

opportunity that they're looking to uh

possibly transact on um and then uh

thirdly besides networking with with

those um uh those folks is also getting

out and educating doctors you know it it

is the process of a of a doctor coming

out of dental school and buying a

business they spend eight years in

undergrad typically in some type of a of

a science and then they spend four years

in Dental School uh learning how to how

to be a clinician very little business

experience or access to business um so

we like to get in and just educate them

on you know what are the things that are

important to look at what does a set of

financials look like and how do you how

do you better understand them um and

with sellers we we like to do a lot of

educating with them understanding what

the market looks like and and what type

of a process is going to take to get

them through that process so those are

really the the main things that we do on

a day-to-day Bas description I I say the

key to Su success in life is me when I

say it to my own wife she rolls her eyes

and I don't mean me as in Paul Goodman I

mean managing expectations and it's

really is just like Dennis managed their

patients expectations about cost care

how long things will take Dennis are on

the other side at this time and one of

the things I share with practice Brokers

is you know Tell Dennis that we're

making a treatment plan for your career

just like you make a treatment plan for

patients it's wild to me Matt but maybe

I shouldn't be surprised since they

cover none of this in dental school

dentists have a lot of mismanaged

expectations as to how long things will

take what kind of um price they can get

for their practice but you mentioned

something and I want to bring up my

failed dreams now so I have this

basketball here for those just listening

so my goal in life uh my dream mat was

to play professional basketball in the

NBA and uh that dream failed miserably

okay because when you grow to this size

and have this speed you got to get new

dreams so helping Dennis not mess up big

decisions is is my new dream but just

talk for a minute before we dig into

some of your questions about how

valuable that team is whether it's an

accountant attorney Bank practice

Management Consultant Financial planner

I mean I want to really bring to life

through these amazing podcasts with DDS

match how important having a team is so

just tell us a little bit about that

yeah I don't I don't know if I can

overemphasize how important having that

team is because the best way to make a

decision is to make an informed decision

and you know early on when I first

started doing this just by way of one

example is we would meet with doctors

they would get excited and they would

sign a listing agreement and we'd go

through a process and find a

and negotiate it out and we get close to

the closing table and all of a sudden

the the sellers reaching out to their

CPA and their financial advisor and I'm

getting a phone call saying hey my CPA

and financial advisor said I I don't

have enough money to retire I'm gonna

have to keep working you know if I do

this so having just those two people are

so critical in this process because if

one of the things you want to know ahead

of time is what is my retirement going

to look like or if I'm younger and I'm

selling to a DSO what is the future

going to look like as far as how how

much longer out am I going to have to

work or what type of a nest egg do I

need to be able to capture and also with

that if you sell your practice for a

million bucks you're not getting a

million bucks at the closing table right

and because you got to pay Uncle Sam

you've got to pay CPA attorneys so on

and so forth so all across the board

with all those people you mentioned I

cannot overemphasize how important it is

to have each and every one of those on

your team and planning prior to getting

to that point of wanting to trans

transition process I'm allowed to talk

about my own people the general dentist

because I am a general dentist and in my

experience in this world Matt I found

that specialist there was an amazing

pediatric dentist that went to one of my

just find out how to sell your practice

lectures in Philadelphia in 2019 and I

don't know if you remember what happened

in 2020 oh yeah the world shut down

right but she was prepared and aware and

we sold her practice during the pandemic

at a great price because she had all of

her I will call it for dentist her

x-rays her pero charting her photos for

her practice together and I just think

you can never start too early preparing

for such a big decision and I appreciate

you you uh echoing that statement if

people get just that out of listening to

the first five minutes they will go back

to their family and say hey we got to

start putting a plan together we got to

get everybody on the same page when we

do this so uh we're going to do some fun

questions and there the topic of a DSO

right I have dentists come to me Matt

and they say there's no way I'm selling

to a DSO and I go what's a DSO they go I

got no idea i' never don't know what it

is but I've heard people talk about it

so let's start with this I'm a dentist

I'm working with you my practice

collects $1.3 million a year has five

operatories I'm 56 years old do I have

to sell to a

DSO uh absolutely not you know it you

you don't have to but there could be

a time when it might make sense and and

part of what we would want to do is

really understand what is that you're

trying to accomplish if you're 54 and

you've got enough money in the bank and

the the your financial planner is

telling you hey if you get you know a

million bucks for your practice you can

hang it up then we can certainly take a

private buyer and put a private buyer in

there without a problem um if you're

looking to maybe sell and stay on for a

longer period of time and keep working

for another three to five years um and

you want to maximize the value then

there may be a play there where it might

make sense to do that but I think the

important thing to get across with on

this topic is when I go out and talk to

dentist they typically are under the

impression that they have to sell to a

DSO that the dsos are taking over the

market and there's no private or

independent buyers out I love this

conversation that you know uh just to

catch you guys up I'm talking with uh

DDS uh transitions specialist sponsor of

dentl nachos Matt poer who's sharing

with me Dr nacho that's an official

doctor of appetizers I founded dentist

job connect founded dentl nachos I own

two private practices in New Jersey what

do you think makes Dennis think that you

know when they say oh Matt I I have to

sell to a DSO the word on the street is

this I I'm just curious where where do

you think they're getting that

from so I I think it's the somewhat I

think it's propaganda that's put out

there by some of the DS

um I think you know the dsos when you go

to a when you go to a uh um a vendor day

at a dental school like when I go over

to Augusta for for a vendor day back in

the day it was midmark and adek and

shine and Patterson that were at those

events and now it's Heartland and and uh

Aspen and all these dsos and and they're

telling them hey look you know you've

got all this debt um you know Banks

aren't going to give you money so on and

so forth and they start might be my only

option going to work for a DSO and on

the other side I think like I said

there's a lot of propaganda out there

that dsos are taking the market over and

the banks aren't lending money and

interest rates are too high and and

there's no independent buyers on the

market in the I like this we're going to

deep propaganda I don't know if that's a

word but I made it up because I live in

this world of both me of me and you and

people at DDS match we're literally

working with both daily right yeah esos

and private practice buyers you both

exist so when these dentist say do I

have to sell to a DSO and you know I'm

using my example I collect 1.3 million I

54 years old I have five operatories

walk me through the two options right

you're you're just having a conversation

with me what's a private practice sale

look like yeah so Private Practice you

know the valuation that we're going to

do is going to essentially be based off

the the discretionary income of the

practice Yeah if your practice is you

know a healthy practice running at at

60% or or so overhead our assumption is

is we're probably going to be able to

sell that practice for somewhere between

1.1 to possibly 1.2 million or higher

and depending on where you're located in

the demand we can create around that um

and when you get your money um or at the

closing table you're going to get 100%

of that money typically the banks are

happy to loan these young docs money um

your transition period is going to be

roughly about six months unless you

choose that you want to continue to work

for the person that buys it and they

want you to continue to work for them

most likely in a in a part-time capacity

because they most the time mat you're

sharing amazing value but you know as me

the person who's done the class twos and

crowns most of the time in a situation

like this the expectations of the

selling dentist is they're going to be

hanging up the handpiece for good within

six to 12 months and perhaps staying on

in some extremely part-time capacity

maybe doing a specific service but it's

not the transition and you can correct

me if I'm inaccurate where you're going

to stay for three four five years when

you're selling to a private practice

buyer at 1.3 million that's a correct

assumption and and that's kind of the

difference with the DSO is the dsos

today it's hard to find a deal where

you're not sticking around for less than

five years um they're they're going to

want that type of a commitment and

whatever they give you is a total

Enterprise Value um which is typically

going to be higher than what an

independent buyer would be able to to

pay you or how it would value to an

independent buyer however the the

difference there is typically going to

be either rolled into Equity back into a

a joint venture or back into the the

holding company um or there's going to

be some type of an earnout so there's

some a little bit of money that you know

could end up depending on how that DSO

does it could grow it could go flat or

there's risk that that maybe they don't

they don't get that money so tell me

this is great value sharing so now you

I'm I'm working with you I'm saying okay

you know 1.1 million and you know I get

to be done in six months that's

attractive but you know what I'm 54

maybe I could work those three four five

six years tell me more about that

Enterprise Value you know you talked

about that 1.1 million let's say it has

strong SD seller discretionary earnings

I know we're just talking for the

purposes of having a hypothetical

situation all situations should be

looked at in detail just like real

treatment planning on patients but now

walk us through this Enterprise Value

Plus staying on plus the equity yeah

yeah so in in a typical office we would

expect somewhere around 20% eida in the

practice um and eida is just a fancy

accounting term for earnings before uh

taxes uh I'm sorry interest uh taxes

depreciation and amateurz look I made a

whole shirt for it here Matt no one can

see it from if they're listening biceps

and EA that's all I think about bicep

curs working on my Eva yeah earnings

before interest

taxes tell it to us again earnings

before uh uh interest uh depreciation

I'm sorry I can't I can't think today

it's uh earnings before interest taxes

depreciation and amateurz yeah it's not

easy one it's not an easy one no no I'm

a I'm a I was in the Marine Corps and

Marine stands for muscles are required

intelligence not essential so but in

general I like what you say when you

said basically that's the amount of

money you'd have left over if you paid

yourself as an associate to run your

practice is that pretty much correct

look at it so y if I collect if I'm in

that 1.3 million I'm collecting 800

Grand you say Hey you can make 30% of

that that's 240 but the pro the practice

has 500 well now it's 260 over the 1.3

million for you know probably an EA that

is like 18 or 20% with that is that a

accurate way to look at it that's that's

accurate yep yep and then typically

we're seeing multiples of that evida

anywhere from five up to 7% in some

cases maybe a little bit higher um you

know if you're if you're in the Greater

Atlanta area and high demand and room to

grow then you know sometimes we can see

eida multiples you know creep a little

bit higher than that but typically you

know I think you could anticipate a a

total Enterprise Value of5 to maybe one

six just going with rough math off the

top of my head um but in that scenario

let's say maybe you get 60% of that cash

at the closing table and then that other

you know 30 to 40% is going to get like

I said uh rolled back into some type of

an equity uh scenario and then as the

when the DSO has a a recap or a a equity

event is typically when you can capture

uh the earnings on on that Equity that

you've ruled and you're you're sharing

such amazing value with my audience

appreciate because it's confusing to

even people who do this every day you

know I work with Rob Montgomery Dental

Focus attorney I think you know him

we've done a podcast you know you ever

see the language inside of these

contracts you know just like with

Dentistry Dentistry could be confusing

to dentist and what's happening with

dsos can be confusing to people who deal

with the daily but if we're helping this

audience you know you're the the big

decision is how long do you want to keep

practicing after you sell and if it's

under a year you know your our next

question is are there independent buyers

that can buy my practice if someone's

listening to this saying I want to be

done in 12 months is a o sale even

realistic to them no no they're just the

risk for them is is higher because

they're they need somebody they need to

be able to plug an associate in there to

transfer that Goodwill and they

typically need a Runway or they want a

Runway because that's going to give them

a better opportunity to get a higher

return on the investment that they're

making so if somebody's saying I want to

be at the beach within 12 months then

typically the independent route is the

is the correct way to go and what that's

why you know if we're looking as we are

to educate and help start thinking about

this earlier before you're backed up to

four months from now I have to move to

South Carolina from New Jersey and it's

it is so nacho nuts to me um that that

people will wait Dennis will wait so

long on making these decisions and they

put themselves up against life events

that cause them stress I mean it's

probably an easy question but have you

ever seen that with one of your dentist

clients yeah it happens quite frequently

and you know if it's in a major metrop

area it can be overcome a little bit

easier but where it really becomes

challenging is if they're in a smaller

town or in a rural area because those

areas it can take 18 to to 36 months

sometime to find a doctor that wants to

go to a small town in a rural I love

this conversation because I I call

myself an equal opportunity kind annoyer

of dentists right and I live in

Philadelphia and I love the city um you

know I've sold practice in rural

locations but have you found that many

of the selling dentist and Royal

locations are from the area where

they're selling their practice it's

where they grew up have you found that

either them or their spouse yes right

and then they're asking a dentist to do

something they've never done they go oh

why doesn't and it doesn't mean it's

impossible it just means that if you're

from those areas I think you have like

you said starting even earlier is so key

because finding that match is I actually

think it's much more difficult to find a

match personally and familywise than it

would be financially you know for the

practices I'm not sure if you find that

in your uh broker

travels yeah yeah the the when it comes

to rural it's it's about timing and it's

about finding that doctor that wants to

be in that small town and like you said

they're typically near from the area um

or we do get you know we're seeing here

in the Southeast anyway we we get a lot

of people from up North and and from the

West Coast that have been moving down

here to the southeast and if they want

to be rural um you know then then they

can be a good match for some of those

spots but but yeah it just takes a long

time and it's a it's a timing issue

awesome you've shared tremendous value

with us we're going to wrap up in about

five or six minutes just have a few of

the things I like us to share I mean

you're doing this daily Matt whether

it's a buyer whether it's a seller let's

go back to this private practice

transition what are some either some

best practices some tips how does the

seller know they're getting the right

buyer how does the buyer know that

they're going to the patients are going

to stay give our audience some like just

some easy things from your life that in

everyday thing whether will the team

stay with them how do they have patience

stay how does the seller know it might

be the right person for their practice

anything you can share with the audience

about

that yeah that's actually it's a really

good question and and on the cell side

you know every seller I've ever worked

with or the vast majority of them they

care they typically care more about the

person than they even do the numbers and

it's not to say that they don't want to

be uh compens fairly compensated for

their life's work but they're typically

more concerned about making sure it's

the right person coming in and a lot of

it is personality it's meeting KNE to

knee it's it's not something that can

just be done via emails and text

messages or even a phone call yeah um

there's a relationship that has to be

built between the two of them clinically

a lot of doctors especially if they have

a a uh um an Aesthetics practice uh

they're they're mer very much concerned

about you know do they have the

experience to be able to take over a

higher

um maybe higher uh caliper practice than

than your and I don't mean to then just

your average you know po uh type um uh

restorative practice I don't know but I

I will just share I love to eat food and

if you're sharing if you're selling a

restaurant that made high-end food the

next Chef has got to be able to make

that high-end food and it to fit both

ways right exactly as a dentist sh with

you it's very stressful to be in an

environment where you can't make the

food and the food being the dentist the

way they made it so I think what you're

sharing there is true gold for the

audience because I tell buyers and

sellers I'm sure you do too can you

replicate the procedures of what's being

done in that office because if they do

30% Endo or 20% endo and you're afraid

of a k file like I am I'm very afraid of

it I haven't done an end a root canal in

years it's not going to be a good fit

for

you yeah yeah and I I think one of the

things I can help a seller feel better

is I encourage buyers to maybe bring a

case or two that they've worked on so

doctor can see maybe a picture and in an

x-ray free and post and how did they

treatment plan it and why did they

treatment plan it and I've also had

sellers pull cases up that they've done

and have a have a buyer kind of tell the

seller what they see and and how would

they do what would they uh um uh

treatment plan in this

scenario that's amaz advice because that

you know what you were doing there as

you're making them talk about things

that are comfortable to them right

because it's fairly this whole thing it

can be fairly awkward so when you're ask

him hey talk about these cases together

I think it really decreases some of the

awkwardness brings up them talking about

what they love to do the dentistry and I

think if anyone listening that is great

advice if you're a seller or buyer

document a few cases to be able to share

during these

meetings yep well you've shared so much

amazing value here I'm talking Matt poer

from DDs match you're in Georgia Matt

anything you'd like to share with our

audience I want to tell our audience if

you're listening to and you want to

connect with Matt you can text buy to

25543 6454 you can text sell to 21554

36454 or you can reach out to us at

dentl

nachos.in value with us Matt anything

you wanted to add before we wrap up yeah

just uh we like to say at DDS match you

know it all starts with a conversation

whether you're buying a practice or

whether you're considering selling you

can't start too early in either scenario

I enjoy talking to D3 and D4 students

dentist that have just gotten out of

dental school to help educate them and

even if you're you've only owned your

practice for a few years at some point

you're going to have to sell that

practice and the earlier you start to

prepare the better that um situation is

going to end up being it's going to

allow you the control that you want when

you're selling your life's work

absolutely love it I you try this with

your clients it's never too early to

start treatment planning the biggest

decision of your career thanks so much

Matt thank

you